Episode # 127- Unlearning Anxiety with Lucas

This week I share an interview with my client, Lucas.   He struggled with several years of anxiety that was getting worse and more debilitating with time.   At times it was even difficult for him to go to the store or to lunch with a friend without worrying, "what if I get an anxiety attack?"

 

After 3 months of somatic coaching with me, Lucas felt like he had found the missing piece.  He had already tried meditation, breathing, yoga, acupuncture- all the "right" things to decrease the anxiety in his life.

 

But this approach taught him the tools he needed to actually unlearn the anxiety- so his brain produced it less and less.

 

Listen for more, and be sure and get on my "Unlearn Your Anxiety and Depression" Book Club list if you want more help in this area for free!

https://body-and-mind-lifecoach.myflodesk.com/bookclub

 

You can check out Lucas' music here:

Hannah/Lucas Pop Music - Idylmind  https://linktr.ee/idylmind

 

Meditation Album- https://lucasfackler.bandcamp.com/album/meditations-vol-1

 

General info: lucasfackler.com

 

For fresh content on healing chronic pain or disease, follow Betsy

on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bodyandmindlifecoach/

 

Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvXZSYYGL2cfJl-oEOzqspA

 

Website https://bodyandmindlifecoach.com

 

Here's a free 6 week link to Curable: 

http://www.curable.com/betsyjensen

Transcript- Automatically Generated:

This is Betsy Jensen, and you are listening to Unstoppable Body and Mind, Episode 127, Unlearning Anxiety with Lucas. In this podcast, we learn to upgrade our brain and understand the power of our thoughts, to heal and to create the results we want in our life. Become the person in control of your healing and make peace with your life.
Become Unstoppable Body and Mind. All right, today I have a special guest, and we're going to be talking more about anxiety. As you know, I've been doing that Unlearn Your Anxiety and Depression Book Club by Dr. Howard Schubiner, talking a lot about anxiety, really realizing how much it's actually so prevalent with my clients.
But I asked Lucas to come here today because his story is mainly with more the anxiety, not complicated with a lot of other symptoms, although of course, some things come and go. But it's really been cool to see his progress over the last three months, addressing his anxiety somatically, and how that has just changed things so quickly for him. So welcome, Lucas.
Thank you for coming.
Yeah. You hit the nail on the head there. It's my anxiety drives my anxiety.
It's kind of the thing. There's not a lot of tangible things I worry about other than having an anxiety attack. And it took a while to kind of realize that's what's going on.
And so here we are.
Here we are. Well, let's start at the beginning. And if you could just tell us kind of what brought you to this work.
Like, how did anxiety develop for you? And like, where were you when you found this?
I think I actually noticed anxiety when I was a kid, but it didn't really dominate my life, you know, but I just remember a couple of times when I was really young. And then in my early 20s, some periods of time that were tough, but it didn't really start to become like a problem affecting my day to day life until like about five years ago after some business stuff went south for me, where, you know, I had a video business and a music business, and I found where they both meet. And it was like making videos for audio brands.
And it got like pretty quickly. It was doing really well. But then after a few years, some relationships changed and stuff changed and it fell out on me, which was like financially devastating.
And that's really screwed with my confidence and everything, just all the things I was doing and everything I had planned. Didn't really pan out how I thought. And it left me kind of doubting myself often and ruminating on what I could have done.
And doubt and ruminating and thinking about those situations turned me into an anxious mess because I was in my head more than I was out in the world. And I thought I was putting time into like fixing my business or being a better business person. But like, oh, if I just like think about it.
But I was doing a ton of damage and I did not realize. Until, you know, a couple of times I had some pretty like mental break moments, you know, complete with high heart rate and all that stuff. That I realized I need to take a look at why is this happening?
And what are some steps that I can take to kind of undo this or work with this?
Yeah. So over the last five years, did anything get better? Did it get worse?
Did it stay the same?
A little bit. I mean, it used to be chronic pain in my neck and shoulders. So I sought out treatment there.
I sought out physical therapy. And one was like a therapist literally just pushing a knot out of my shoulder. Right.
And another other physical therapy was doing the work myself, different stretches. Another one was finding a massage therapist doing this method called Hendrickson Method, which is incredible. He helped me get over some kind of lingering pain.
And it was also mindset stuff. So that led me down the path of like, okay, like it's not just about stretching and getting massage, but it's about mindset things. And then so I did acupuncture.
Yeah.
With a really great acupuncturist who also was like more than just stick me with the needles, mindset things and always had good advice.
Yeah.
And then yoga. So all the right stuff, taking the right path, and then even daily walks. I haven't missed a walk for four or five years, every day, even when I had COVID.
So I thought I have this under control. Look at all the things I'm doing over five, six years. That's a lot of work.
But what I didn't realize I wasn't doing was confronting the anxiety itself. I thought if I did the work, the anxiety would go away. But it wasn't until my first sessions with you after I had kind of a really tough December, the beginning or end of the year, we got together and did some sessions.
And you taught me how to confront it and breathe through those feelings. And in talking to you, it was pretty easy to bring back that adrenaline and cortisol rush and that tension that I get. And then we get into the comfortable state and do the somatic work to acknowledge it's there.
And kind of diminish how much it can dominate your body.
Yeah.
That's the biggest one.
So, yeah, I remember one of our first sessions, you saying something like, I just want to not feel that at all, right? Like, I just want to be able to go out because you were at the point where even going out to the store was stressful and getting at times, yeah, it would get me secluded. And so, that idea of like, hey, if I do the work right, then I won't have a symptom.
And that trips people up in their healing if they're thinking that when they have a symptom, it means they're doing it wrong because like, you could still have a symptom. I could still have symptoms. I still do have symptoms.
Yes.
Because our body is giving us feedback. So when we interpret it as we're doing it wrong and I need to never have anxiety, that actually perpetuates more anxiety.
Yeah. So the other day I was taking a walk thinking about doing this podcast and thinking like, everything I just said, how I identified it and I had all these things I was doing right to like work on my anxiety, but what was I not doing? And what did that keep me from?
And so I wrote down five things. I wrote down one was identify, which I did to just elaborate just a little bit. Oh, sorry.
So one was identify there's an issue and identify that you have anxiety.
Yeah.
So I did that.
Did you identify that pretty early on, by the way, like when you first like five years ago, or was that more when it started impacting your life in different ways?
I think it was after I got through the pain management. Yeah. It's when I identified that the anxiety may have been responsible for the pain management.
And then rewind years earlier, I would have like stomach issues from time to time. I started to go, oh, there's always some lingering thing with me that is never diagnosed as some medical issue. Then I was like, damn, that's anxiety.
So once I identified it, my step two was to be proactive, which was seek treatments physically and then mentally yoga and walking and all that stuff. The third step is the one that I kept skipping and that was confront it. Instead of run from anxiety, it wasn't until with you, I confronted it that I could then my fourth step was accept it.
I'm going to have anxiety. It will never go away. And once I accepted it, now I can start to keep working on it.
But then healing comes with after I accept it. Those are my five steps that I realized I was doing one and two, one and two, one and two, one and two, skipping three, I could not get to four or five. So, yeah, in doing three with you, I have now accepted it.
I now have regular scheduled therapy as well. I'm ready to, you know, it's going to be my life, but I'm ready to move forward from having it dominate my life at times.
Yeah, right, right. It's like that, that classic case of like, when you have that, that thing that you're avoiding, it's like pushing a beach ball under water. And you're just, there's so much resistance and there's so much, it takes so much energy and it's so draining, and then it just rebounds up anyway, right?
And so that idea of the more we want to get rid of something, whether it's chronic pain, and we go that route of like trying all the medicines and trying all the doctors and procedures and all these things and still having chronic pain, or what happens, I had forgotten about the neck pain because we didn't, like I didn't deal with that symptom. But that makes sense, actually, I see a lot of people whose chronic pain symptoms decrease and then anxiety comes up. You know, it's like they kind of, it's like a whack-a-mole.
It's just like, yeah, yeah, totally goes down. Another one comes up. And so then anxiety, like you alluded to earlier, kind of makes you feel like you're doing something and it makes you feel like you're productive and you're doing stuff for your business or you're right.
Like you're thinking about things, you're solving problems, you're but you're really like ruminating and right. So it's easy to see how anxiety could feel very different than the chronic pain stuff. But we actually treat it the same, right?
We reframe it. We see it as something not so scary. It's misinformation from the brain rather than believing all of the brain stories, right?
Yeah, that's a big one too. You know, the anxiety, staying busy thing, I used to think when I was doing well with the business and all the things I'm doing, music and video and all this stuff, I was starting to have anxiety, but everything was good. I was, you know, making more every year and new doors were opening.
But I had this energy I didn't know what to do with. And I felt like a shark, you know, how supposedly a shark can't stop moving or it dies. And it's like that I just kept thinking of myself that way.
And didn't know what to do with that energy. And I thought, well, if I use it to constantly make more, you know, music or content or come up with new business ideas that I'm harnessing the energy to be more successful. And all I was doing is just digging a deeper hole.
Because, you know, it wasn't until it wasn't known. It wasn't until I found yoga that I could slow down a bit. Yeah, and like realize, like, you know, chilling out in the beginning, like doing a slow flow yoga and then Shavasana for like 15 minutes after doing, you know, just laying there and being like I can just do nothing and but it's doing something for me doing nothing is healing me.
Yes, I'm so glad you said that because that was a really key thing for me to understand is that even laying there, I'm not doing nothing. Like, that's actually when my digestion works, that's when the cells repair, that's when, you know, I take deeper breaths, that's where I can get into that brainwave state. Like, that's not doing nothing.
That's like plugging in your phone and saying, my phone is doing nothing right now. It's like, if you don't do that, your phone really is going to do nothing to actually allow it to have that non activity. That's that's just how we are.
But I think I was that same way where, you know, I almost thought I could just like fall asleep thinking about problems and solve them in my sleep. And yeah, really what I was doing is just creating problems to solve and then solving them. And it's just like running on this treadmill.
And so, yeah, you're doing activity, but is it getting you anywhere? And and, you know, it's depleting to do that.
Yeah, it really, yeah, it was really draining. And my partner's, we've been together for a long time. She had a family member over once, like two summers ago or maybe last summer.
And he said something about, like, how when you spend time thinking, you can actually burn more calories than when you're exercising. And I was like, holy crap, like, no wonder why I've why I've felt so depleted for so long because of all that ruminating and like trying to plan business things, trying to move the needle, as I would say, and like get somewhere extra. And I just would be like, you know, all I do is take a walk today.
I'm exhausted, you know, but the entire day I'm constantly thinking and cycling and trying to think of the next move. So that gave me a little nugget that I think about from time to time, him saying that and going, oh, damn, like, how did I not know that? You know, how have I never heard that before?
Okay, yeah, so yeah, I just think of it as it's just like depleting to just be like running all the time or sprinting all the time or right. Like it's just natural, like looking at the seasons and how things grow. And right, there's there's times of rest, there's times of growth.
And for some reason, our society has just turned us into thinking we need to be these robots that continuously work and continuously, you know, need to be moving the needle. But a lot of us come to that realization once, you know, these these physical things start happening. Like I just can't do it like that anymore.
And a lot of times we blame old age and, you know, just, you know, just getting old. But I really think that the more we just allow those times of tuning in and aligning and getting to that rest and repair state, that's that's why they call it, you know, rest and repair, rest and digest. How's that been for you?
Are you adding more of that into your life?
Yeah, I had been trying to do that before working with you. But now, but yeah, now it's like I'm just seeing it as it's as essential as eating or drinking water or whatever. I'm treating it like that severely, not just like, oh, I could use a break.
But like, no, this is daily life stuff. I have I'm going to do this. It's not, you know, I'm not going to skip eating, so I'm not going to skip, you know, even if it's just three minutes.
Yeah, there's like no guilt about it in that way, right? You're not like, oh, my gosh, you have to keep giving calories to this body that, you know, it's like, of course, you're going to take care of it. And part of that is doing nothing sometimes, tuning out, not being in that fight or flight state.
Yeah.
And flight is really anxiety. Anxiety is that, you know, like feeling like you're running from a tiger constantly. And then a lot of people can't turn that off.
And when you give yourself time to rest and then you approach what it is that you want to do or have to do with work, it's starting to feel a bit more, you know, it's easier, I guess. And there's a little bit more clarity. It feels like acting with purpose versus just staying busy, you know.
And then imagine the results. Like if that's your approach when you're working, that can only give better results for yourself or your client or whoever you're working for.
Like I was thinking of that story you told about going to the music shop. Do you mind if you tell that story or if I tell it? Yeah, go ahead.
This is how I interpreted it. Sure, yeah. But like the gist of it was basically like, you know, each week we would work on some things like, okay, maybe I'll go to a store or maybe I'll go, you know, to this lunch with someone, right?
And even those things were stressful at first, but we did this graded exposure and just like prepping you for it. And it was always you always did better than you thought you were going to. That's how our brains are.
We just fear it so much and dread it. And then we like, oh, that was fine. But then the next thing, right?
But you went to this music store or something. It was a place where you were in your element. You were buying some equipment or something and you were present.
Instead of being worried about what people were thinking and what you might have done wrong or what might happen if you get anxiety right now, you were just present with what was going on. Had a great conversation with the owner. The owner was even curious about you doing some side work for him.
None of that would have happened if you were in your fight or flight state.
Exactly. Yeah, it was going to a new music shop that I hadn't been to in my neighborhood. And recently, I'd noticed sometimes anxiety would come up when I was going to go somewhere to spend money.
I didn't realize that it was because I was going to spend money. It took me a minute to realize how much I still think about financially where I was at and where I'm at now and how that makes me feel and how careful I am. Especially in music gear, if I buy it, I need to be able to make money from it or sell it back to break close to even what I paid for.
So there's all of that going into it normally when I'm just like, but what if I just want a thing? Yeah, that's my business, but sometimes I just want to go do something on the weekend, spend money and have a thing to play with, you know? And yeah, that particular time, I ordered it online, found out they were nearby and messaged them.
I was like, let me just drop by. And they said, OK. And then I go and check out the shop and then I'm apparently just in a good mood, you know, attracting them to me because they couldn't help but talk to me when I could.
It could have just been 10 seconds. I walked around the shop, said hi to people, and then the owner stood up and just starts talking to me like we've known each other forever. Nice.
And I had a moment of thinking like, well, normally I would probably be looking for anxiety to screw this up. But I was thinking, but I'm actually calm. I didn't plan for this.
I don't even know the last time I ate that used to get in my head. And I was like, but, you know, I'll just do this and then go home and it'll be chill. And it was, and it was just nice just to like not be in my own way, not be in my own head, go buy a thing, make a new relationship.
And then ever since, you know, I've been in contact with them, we've done some things together already.
So no way. Oh, I love that story. And I love that idea of like being present, being open, being that is attractive to people, right?
The fear-based states. I was talking to someone about this earlier. If you think of like a, like a magnet and those fear-based states are actually a repulsive energy.
It's like pushing away. And then the, even just a neutral state or, you know, a happy state that is attractive to people. So I love how you said that.
And it just feels, you know, if you feel better, even if you're not sure that you're exuding that, but you feel better, then you're going to, you're like, maybe I would have avoided it. Maybe my body language would have had a closed shoulder. Maybe I would have been angled toward the door.
I probably would have been more likely to just go like, let's just pick this up and go and not even do a loop and not even say hi.
Right, you could have just walked in, grabbed it, or if there was a line, you're on your phone, right? You know, just like secluded and shutting yourself down versus you're just here, you're looking around. You're not, if that thought of like, what if anxiety comes?
Did that ever come up? Like, does it ever come up to think of like, what if I get anxious?
That's the majority of my anxiety is thinking, what if I have an anxiety attack? That's the hardest part about it. But thankfully, I don't use my phone for it.
If I have anxiety, I always figure a phone is going to make it worse in most cases. So I just try to write it out, you know, but maybe I should distract myself with my phone. But I'm not a person who will do that.
If I'm in line, I try to be really, that's an exercise to be present, even at its worst, my anxiety, I wouldn't be in public going like this, you know, I'd be like, okay, here it is, it's hitting. Why do I feel so anxious? And then just kind of look around and try to be in the line and, you know, exist in public.
So before, if that had happened and you thought, oh no, what if I get anxiety and you start feeling the sensations, that would be really distressing. But now, if that happens, like, can you take us through how you would react now and how that would work?
So either one is probably, I'm probably going to have to pee. I drink a ton of water. And then as we know, you get nervous, that's kind of one of the first signs.
It's not a bad, we've talked about this. It's not a bad thing to have an out. So if it hits, I would probably just go to the bathroom, pee, splash my face and probably feel better.
But now I would add to that, taking 10 seconds and doing probably three deep belly breaths and maybe trying to identify with somatic stuff, like maybe notice something like holding tension, give it a color, just one of those tricks, but real quick, try to do it just so I can feel like, hey, I have some control over this before I go back out and re-attack the situation.
So even if it does come up, instead of having a fearful response, and even if you can't control it exactly, like turn it off like a switch, you feel more control when you have some strategies, and you've learned several strategies, you've learned them, like some of them you even knew before, but you're applying them differently, and some of them that you've learned now, you can apply with other sensations in your body too.
Yes.
So it's the same process.
It's almost like doing somatic work has helped me connect the dots between all the previous work. Because it's such a mindful thing that if you're mindful while you're getting acupuncture, that's how acupuncture for me, that's how it works. I've had people go, it didn't do anything.
And I was thinking, I bet your mindset was that it probably wouldn't do anything.
Yeah.
But if your mindset was like, this stuff is going to work. Like for me, I remember having my arms just melt away, and I couldn't feel my arms in a good way. And I would have an itch in my forehead and be like, I'm not going to move.
I can do this. And I would just be jabbed up with needles. But I was in the right mindset.
I wanted it to do something. I wanted it to give relief, and it totally did.
I'm not opposed to those types of things. If people, especially if it's not stressful financially, it calms your nervous system. That's what I always get back to.
For me, dancing calms my nervous system. I love going to a thrift store and just walking around. There's a few things that are unique to me that other people might be like, oh, I hate that environment.
Or dancing would make me feel horrible. I wouldn't like that at all. So just finding what it is for you that calms your nervous system, having a few tools that you can have, not feeling like you have to totally control it or never have it, but just knowing it's like if a wave comes, knowing how to ride the wave rather than just drowning with it or being swept away.
You're just like, okay, I'm just going to, the more I accept it, the faster it goes away.
Yeah, it's like a vibration in your body and you can notice it and go, it's here now, it's strong, but this song will end, and it'll stop.
Yeah, it's temporary, it'll stop. Yeah, okay.
Finding flow, though. So for you, dancing, going to the shop, like thrift shopping, me, it's music. Obviously, it's like this stuff, guitar, drums, producing a song, get into flow.
A video game, too. I ignored those for years because I felt guilty because I'm not going to get anywhere career-wise with video games, which isn't totally true because I make music and there's music and games. But anyway, it wasn't until I brought them back into my life that I gave myself some more downtime to not just mindlessly watch TV or something, which is fine, too.
Actually, I'm like, yay, I can finally mindlessly watch TV.
I like that, too. Give me a good show or binge at Fargo or something, which I recently did. But the cool thing about a game, especially if you have a Nintendo Switch or some handheld gaming thing, you don't have the phone distractions.
And you have to be active with your brain. So if your anxiety is really high, that's a great way to kind of get off of that for a second and turn that energy into something fun to start to rewire that. And that has helped me tremendously, too, to just go, man, I don't really have any more work to do.
I feel like I should. I want to do something. I'll play a game for a few and then take a walk and then hit a reset button Yeah.
Flow. It's all about flow.
Yeah, it's like less about what exactly it is you're doing, but more about how you're feeling about it, right?
Yeah, sure.
Something I don't know. I thought of cooking, right? For someone, that might be a super enjoyable process.
For someone else, they might be resentful and hating it and feel like it's a chore. But it doesn't have to be like the rest and repair doesn't have to be just doing meditations, laying on the ground. It could be an active thing, but yeah, it's that flow state.
And that is where you're more likely to connect to people. You're more creative. You're more playful.
It actually strengthens your immune system to be in that state. It's the state of digestion, and your reproductive system works better. So all of those rest and repair things, that flow state, that's actually where we would do our best work, or where we do have those interactions that propel us so much further in our business because we met the right person because we were attracting them versus just at home, not wanting to go out and just ruminating about how to make more money.
It's extra tough when you're self-employed and self-motivated, and it's like how do you draw that line between... because I do music, so that's where I get into flow, but that's also where I have opportunities to make money. And I had a hard time getting myself into flow for fun for myself.
There was a time where I blocked it, and I was like, no, it feels I don't want to do that. And then I felt worse. It wasn't until I come down to my studio and create something, and be like, oh damn, I feel like I exercised or I checked some box that I needed to check.
And now I know that. Now I'm like going, I can't not play music. And I can't let career or money get in the way of doing that, because that's just been a part of me since my teenage years.
And that's how I deal with stress and anxiety and life in general, is like make some music, play some music.
Yeah, I love that. Definitely anything that you do in that flow state, it's like charging the batteries or it's like building more energy. So it's not a waste to have fun or to do things for yourself or to have that self-care and be creative with it.
It doesn't have to be going to get a massage and a bubble bath and a pedicure for self-care. It can be the things that light you up, the things that feel timeless, the things that you feel more energized afterwards instead of depleted.
I think cooking is a good one if you can find it. Some people maybe they'll never find it, but I've been on both sides of that coin where it's been like, I'm just too busy. I can't be bothered making food.
What am I doing? This is such a waste of my time. So now I try to go like, I don't even have to be like super chef dude.
It's like, let me just make something, but at least give a damn with the ingredients that I have and like just enjoy the process of making it because then I get to eat it. And that's it. Just be like, I have to do it anyway.
And this is kind of a pass from the boss to like take your time and make your food, dude, like enjoy it. And that's helpful because you're going to do it every day, most of us. So that's another just take a moment and be like, well, I'm making breakfast right now and I'm going to take my time, scramble my eggs and enjoy brewing my coffee the way I like it.
And then, you know, then have it and work will be there when I'm done.
Yeah, that's like checking in with the present moment. And you could do that with any of those daily activities that you do, like brushing your teeth. I've heard of that too, those two minutes that you brush your teeth.
Just be mindful, fill your feet on the floor, you know, feel the air against your skin, feel your clothes against your skin. Look around the room, right? Just like reminding yourself what's going on in the present moment.
Because our brains have so much of a tendency to be in the future or the past. And that's, you know, the future is really where anxiety is. The past is usually where depression is.
So being in the present moment, I love that idea of just like taking an activity you normally do anyway. And because the more we can simplify it, the more effective it will be, right? Like having an elaborate two-hour morning routine so that we can feel less anxiety.
Versus being able to like throw some things in here or there and just be mindful more of the time of things we're already doing.
The brushing the teeth one, you've said to me, and I do that now more often, like, you know, I brush like three or four times a day, which, you know, maybe maybe is close to too much.
But I'm like, I'm impressed.
Yeah, I just, you know, I work from home and, you know, the bedrooms on the third floor, but there's a bathroom on the second floor. And so if I have a smoothie, once I'm done, I like to brush the stuff off, you know, or coffee.
My dentist would love you.
Well, I haven't been to the dentist in a long time, too. So that's part of it, preventative care. But so I'm doing it three, four times, maybe five times a day.
I'm trying to, like, just go a little slower, which is going to be a better job anyway. And just kind of think about what I'm doing. Where are the bristles touching in my mouth?
To just another way to, like, be present and take a break from whatever it was I was doing, which is probably work. Go up, you know, finish my snack, get some water, brush my teeth, whatever, and use those little teeth brushing moments as other little two minute unwind, decompress kind of things. I love it.
Yeah, I love that. And I love the, like, three belly breaths. I mean, I love that idea of just, like, make it more manageable and then just try to kind of weave that into your lifestyle more and more.
Like, just change the lifestyle habits to include those micro relaxations. And then, you know, if the anxiety does come up, it's addressing it the same way we do with chronic pain. It's not fearing it.
It's turning towards it. It's being curious with it, right? Anything else that you've learned with the, you called it, like, the confronting it.
Yeah.
You know, people might be like, what do you mean by confronting it? Like, what did you feel the most from that?
When we did the somatic in one of the first sessions, you know, it's like, find that tension in your body and then, like, breathe into it and all that. And then it moves. Like, that awareness of, like, oh, damn, if that can move, isn't that the same thing that my anxiety is?
It's like this moving target that shows up in different ways. So, and I would try to hide from that. So, instead of hiding from it, I'm trying to do practices, like, when I go to my favorite park and sit in the grass, do my, take my shoes off and ground and stare up at a tree.
I would do that. But I wouldn't want to think about the things that made me anxious. Now, I'm just trying, I'm dropping little bits in.
I'll just take a little bit of pepper in my scrambled eggs and be like, you feel really good right now, but what is it that makes it when you don't feel good? Let's go there for a second, you know? And then try to invoke just a little bit, but don't let it ruin my day.
But I'm doing that more now. It's like exposure therapy out in the wild. Next time I'm at a music shop, I'm going to go like, who cares that you're spending money?
You know, don't let the anxiety tell you, you shouldn't do this, like you didn't make that much or whatever. Instead of going like, don't think about it, don't think about it, don't think about it. Because if you're saying that, what are you going to do?
You're going to think about it. You're going to be anxious. So, you know, it's those things.
And then the other one is when you try to do breath work and your anxiety is at its worst, it's hard to do. You literally don't want to do it because you're like, I'm going to swear, you're like, fuck this. I can't do this.
Right. And even if I'm anxious and I'm at a restaurant and I go to the bathroom and take three belly breaths, they're not really great breaths. They're not very good at all, honestly.
But it's the fact that I'm trying when it's at its worst that reminds me I have a little bit of control here. And then the next time it's easier or when the anxiety is not as bad, it's like, this is easy. And then it just melts away.
But when it's really bad, I'm fully aware that it's probably not going to net the results that I really want. But it is a little bit. You know, but anxiety is going to tell you this won't work.
You can't do this. This isn't going to be helpful. Just tell anxiety, middle fingers, I got to do it, man.
I got to do it. I got to breathe and accept that maybe it won't be the most replenishing breath. And you're not going to go back to the meeting and feel 100 percent, but you're not going to feel as bad as you were when you went in.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's just like you're riding that wave and it's temporary and it's going to end. But if you're trying to squash it down, it's like pushing down that beach ball and it's going to shift and cause more problems.
Yeah, it really truly is that. I just wish I would have had that clue five years ago. You can't just squish it into the pool.
Way, because it's so different than what we're taught. And same with even emotions. I have a lot of people that are like, I never want to feel angry again.
But how limiting is that in your life to think like a whole group of emotions I never ever want to feel again. And I'm going to make it bad, something bad about me if I feel it. I mean, the more we can just embrace these things.
One last thing I really like is just to even just label it. Oh, this is anxiety. This is not tightness in my chest.
Oh, this feels like, you know, a bunch of butterflies swarming around or whatever it is, like however you describe it. Just even labeling it sometimes can be super helpful for me.
It's helpful. And it's also helpful to remember that it's in small doses. It's necessary.
If you didn't know when to flight, you might get hurt, you know. So it's understanding like, well, this is it's hardwired in me. It's not there's no way that I'm going to make it go away.
And if I do, I'm probably addicted to drugs and other bad things are going to happen, right? You can't make it go away. You have to realize that it is hardwired for a reason.
It's for survival. It's just we get so mixed up in when we feel like we need to survive and when we're actually surviving just fine. And that's the big one.
And I think once you kind of wrap your head around that, you can start to live with it and have it be there when it's supposed to be there. When you've got a bad feeling about going into that neighborhood, you need it then. Or, shit, I almost got hit by that person lane changing.
You're hyper aware for a second. You need it then. But when you're just thinking about that email you got to write or go to that dinner or that lunch meeting or whatever, there's probably not going to be a tiger ready to eat you.
You're probably going to be ready to eat that pizza or something. Just look for that. Enjoy the food and enjoy the moment.
Don't be afraid all the time. Yes.
You notice you're feeling those sensations. You can label, okay, I'm in that survival state. And just teach your nervous system in this moment.
Okay, thank you. You're telling me you think there's a danger. And okay, we're safe, though.
There's not a danger. We've got this. And then maybe use some somatic techniques or sometimes some reframing.
But you're usually not as logical then either. You can't really talk yourself down. But as long as you have a few of those strategies and have that practice of, at least sometimes when it's more mild, you can practice it a little easier.
Your brain will produce it less and less over time. So that's the good news about this. It's not like it just stays this bad and then you have some techniques.
This whole process is actually rewiring your brain as well to just produce it less and less because it's not going to be as effective of a strategy anymore.
It's so true that you said you have to teach your nervous system. And you think logically, but I know there's nothing wrong. It doesn't matter.
Logic is gone. If you're as far along as me, it's some pre-wired crap that you have to get back in there and remake those new connections so that your nervous system doesn't always jump back to the thing it's addicted to, which is cortisol and adrenaline, when it doesn't need it. And it takes time.
That's the other thing is be patient and have some compassion for yourself, which you've said, my therapist has said, and that one's, like, to really do it is really, it's kind of hard for some people, was for me, it's easy to say it, but to feel it for yourself.
Yeah.
Super important in healing, for sure.
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I think that's one of, like you said, the hardest things, and for some people, for me, it was, and also, you know, of course, the most beneficial, but the, just I feel like learning about the nervous system helped me be so much more compassionate with myself, because then it doesn't seem as much like, you know, like I'm, you know, hopeless and I'll never learn.
It's like, okay, this nervous system is really just doing its best. It kind of has the mind of a elementary school kid or something. So I just need to have it along for the ride and work with it and be friended and understand it more.
Sometimes it's actually probably giving me some good information and I can learn from it. But most of the time, I'm more of that re-parenting role of like, okay, you're safe. This new environment, of course, it's scary to you, but sending an email is still a safe, like no tiger is chasing you.
So it's just like re-teaching that nervous system in real time so that we can just keep evolving.
That's a good way to frame it, too, of it. Like, I used to feel like so bad because why am I so anxious? Why can I control it?
And it's not, it isn't like there's some king, mighty ruler. It is more like a child who's just confused. That is like, it's you, but it's not really you.
But you have, it is, you know, it's like your conscious mind is like, no, but I'm not that way. But if it's wired, if it's there, right, accept it, hold the child's hand instead of like pushing it away. Don't think of it as, like I said, like the dominant king, ruler of all things.
It's not. It just needs some nurturing and some care and see it, you know, look at it and don't avoid it.
Don't avoid it. Don't push it away. Work with it.
Reassure it that it's, it's fine to be there and we're good. And I've got you and I've got your back.
And yeah, exactly.
Amazing. Well, your story, I think, will help a lot of people. I think it.
Yeah, I think that's it's super inspiring. And I think because you had so much background in this stuff already, like you said, this was just the missing piece. And so I think a lot of things clicked into place for you pretty quickly relatively.
And are there any last thoughts or ideas that you might want to share or tips? Or I mean, I think we've covered everything I wanted to. But I also wanted to give you one more opportunity if there's anything else that's come up in your mind.
The biggest one is just be patient and take your time.
Especially in the beginning, it's like little bits of progress. Or even if you end a session and you feel even more anxious, look at it as maybe a good thing. Like, oh, I exposed myself today, and it wasn't a big deal.
Or it feels like a huge deal today, like that I did that. But it's necessary. To get back into those anxious moments, it's necessary when you have guidance, when you have someone to help you, then kind of identify them and breathe through them.
And it's going to be hard, but be patient. And the only other thing is, if you want to hear this music that I do, two places, one anywhere, Idle Mind, I-D-Y-L-M-I-N-D, it's like pop music. We did an album called Feel Good that is a lot of this stuff that comes from all my years of yoga and all these things, but also from a person who understands what it's really like to need something to feel good.
And then I have a meditation album when I was really heavy into doing yoga that I did. You can find on Bandcamp, Lucas Fackler on Bandcamp. So if you want to check out any of my tunes, that's, you know, maybe you can share some links somewhere.
We'll put them in the show notes for sure.
Cool. Yeah, yeah.
Other than that, I'm checking those out too.
Yeah, cool. And I think, and I thank you for your, your, the way you speak when you're doing the session is just so calming, and your, your mindset and all this stuff is just the right stuff for people who need help. And it has helped me tremendously, and I'm probably not done, you know, I'll probably hit you up again because it's just, it's good to check back in and treat myself to that session because I still need it.
I get coaching, but I want it. Yeah, I think everyone, like we have our blind spots, we have new things that come up. If we're doing it right, we're still evolving and right.
So new stuff is, is coming up for us. So yeah, it's been awesome working with you and seeing your progress.
Yeah, likewise. Yeah, I'd happily do this again later when there's more progress and we can talk, talk more about other things to try.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. All right. Well, thank you so much again.
And we'll wish you on your way and look for our next episode when we do that together and have your fun experiences until then. And make some good stories for us. All right.
All right. Take care. Thanks everyone.
Bye.
Bye everybody.
Thank you so much for listening. I hope you learned a little bit about your brain today. That helps you in your life like it helped me.
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