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Science based strategies for the brain and nervous system, and thought work tools from life coaching to help you feel better in your body at any age!
Episodes
Wednesday Feb 16, 2022
Wednesday Feb 16, 2022
Today I talk about the Parasympathetic/calm state- the nervous system state where our body can rest and repair.
When we are in survival states (Fight/Flight, Freeze/Fawn), we use more energy and compromise the organ systems of the body.
But in the calm/ rest and repair state, we have increased circulation, digestion, and immunity.
We have more activation of the prefrontal cortex- so we are more collected, present and creative.
It is a learning state, and we are more receptive AND intuitive.
This parasympathetic/calm state takes less energy for the body. It is a place of more ease and flow.
Your cells are either in defense mode or repair mode, they can't be both.
So by giving yourself a chance to rest or play, you are "Doing something" very important! You are letting your body heal!
For fresh content on healing chronic pain or disease, follow Betsy
on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bodyandmindlifecoach/
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvXZSYYGL2cfJl-oEOzqspA
Website https://bodyandmindlifecoach.com
*Free Nervous System Modules- 4 free videos explaining the nervous system, how it affects your health, and how to regulate it https://view.flodesk.com/pages/620ffa96e0eda1a0d870b5a6
*Curable App- 6 Weeks Free with this code http://www.curable.com/betsyjensen
If you like this podcast, please give it a five star rating and review on Itunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unstoppable-body-and-minds-podcast/id1493360543
Transcript- Automatically generated:
This is Betsy Jensen, and you are listening to Unstoppable Body and Mind, episode 90, The Rest and Repair State. In this podcast, we learn to upgrade our brain and understand the power of our thoughts, to heal and to create the results we want in our life. Become the person in control of your healing and make peace with your life.
Become Unstoppable Body and Mind. Hello, my loves. I want to talk to you today about the parasympathetic calm state.
You might hear it called rest and repair, rest and digest, rest and reproduce. It's the calm state, the ventral state. Could also call it the window of tolerance or as I've been calling it, alignment.
If you think of a zebra that's out in the wild, when the zebra is being chased, they'll go into a fight or flight, run away. But then when they're not being chased, the zebra will go to a state of relaxation, where it's eating, it's digesting its food, reproducing, playing, resting, and that is the parasympathetic calm state. Now, the problem, the double-edged sword that we have as humans is that we have these powerful brains, these prefrontal cortexes that can think of abstract things and we can think of the future and the past, and that means we can worry constantly.
We can think of the past and regret it. We can think of the future and have concerns about it. And so we can actually keep ourselves constantly in a survival state.
And that's how most of us are living. That's definitely how I was living. As I look back five years ago, and I was either in fight or flight, or freeze or fawn, which are all survival states that I talk about on the Nervous System Basics episode.
And I will continue to talk about a lot because these survival states will actually transform the way your body functions. Using more energy, imagine if you were sprinting versus a slow jog or a walk, your body is functioning differently when you're in survival mode. So the relaxed state is the parasympathetic calm state, and what happens to your body physiologically when you're there.
So in this state, there's increased digestion, increased circulation, increased immunity, increased functioning of the prefrontal cortex, increased oxytocin, the hormone for relation and connections, and increased recovery of the body. So this is the state where your cells are regenerating, that natural part of your body that knows how to heal, like when you get a cut, when you're in the parasympathetic calm state, this is where your body does rest and repair. There's decreased defensiveness.
So when you're not in the survival states, you'll have less defensive posturing, emotions, and that tension in your body that can come when you're going through the world thinking that everything is dangerous. In this state, your nervous system feels relaxed, regulated, and safe. You may feel more connected with others, more creative, playful, present, and curious.
This is where you would think thoughts like, I'm safe, I'm enough, I'm worthy, I deserve this. When you're in this state, you do have an increased capacity to self-regulate. So less of the things around you will bother you when you're in this calm, relaxed state.
You might even think of sometimes in your life that you have felt very excited by life, maybe you're newly in love, and if something happens, like someone cuts you off, you feel more able to deal with it. You are not as upset. And in this state, you'll feel more openhearted and generous and giving.
This is the state where you can come up with ideas. So what I'll often see with my clients is that when they start to regulate more and more, if they have issues around money or around time or around relationships, the more they get regulated and get into this calm state, they start to come up with their own ideas. They start to see things a little differently.
And this is really where the magic happens. I've had so many clients of mine who have time scarcity issues start to think of some clever ways to hire out something or to have something delivered or to just drop altogether the pressure they're putting on themselves about something. This is like the state where when you're in the shower and you have your best ideas, this is the kind of creativity and inspiration you can expect to have more and more of in the parasympathetic calm state.
It's also where you access your intuition. This process that I teach of tuning into yourself, starting to learn these cues from your body and what they mean in different contexts, by doing that, you actually do get into this parasympathetic calm state more and have access to your higher self, to your intuition, to that inner voice that you have. And the more you access that, the stronger it gets.
This calm state actually takes less energy. If you think of the survival states, they're all putting our body into a compromised function of either hyper arousal or shutdown. So getting into this parasympathetic calm state actually benefits your body and mind in so many ways.
Now, for a lot of us, we have ideas about how we should always be doing things. We maybe feel unworthy or that we should be giving more. So if you notice that it's hard for you to calm down and to regulate and to get to a very calm place, that is normal in our society, but maybe you can think of some times in your life where you have felt this peace, where you've shown up with this calm.
And really what's going on for you in those times? What kind of thoughts do you have? And how can you spread this into more and more areas of your life?
When you're not needing to use as much energy to be in those survival states of fear, you open yourself up for more ease and flow in your life. But I will warn you, trying to let yourself relax a lot more may feel uncomfortable at first. I definitely have had a hard time, sometimes in my life, even taking off days of work.
And you would think since I own my own business now and I do my own coaching, I could just take days off whenever I want, but that's even been worse for me at first until I learned about regulating my nervous system more. So I just used to work and work, and the quality of work was not as good. And I was getting burnt out, I was getting exhausted.
So this way of living takes less energy. Your work will be more inspired, more creative, more intuitive, more in tune, and you're giving your body that chance to really rest and repair that it needs. One way that helped me to think of it initially was to think that although I felt like I was doing nothing when I would just take a nap or lay around or just stare out the window, I'm actually doing something.
I'm giving my body that chance to work. Your cells could either be in defense mode or repair mode. They can't be in both.
And so when you're in survival states, you're in defense mode. And when you're regulated, you're in repair mode. So it might seem like you're not doing anything, but below the surface at the cellular level, you really are.
Another quote is that if you don't choose time to rest, then your body will choose it for you. So if you can find these little ways to calm yourself more and more throughout the day, regulate your nervous system, there will be many great results for you. I promise that.
Have a good one, guys. Bye. Now, if you want to learn more about how to regulate your nervous system, how to process emotions, how to process pain, how to rewire your brain, how to make decisions, have boundaries, and have more fun in your life, then I'm happy to announce that I have just the program for you.
Starting February 22nd to 22-22, this is a program all about alignment. And I'm not talking about the alignment that I talked about as a physical therapist for over 20 years. I'm not talking about the physical alignment of your spine and your body, but the alignment of yourself with your body, with your inner self, with the knowledge and power that you have within you that is responsible for healing, that will help you with making decisions and being true to yourself.
Alignment is just getting to that parasympathetic calm state, the ventral state where you are connected, where you are collected, where you are creative, where you are playful. And getting to that state more and more often in your life will result in better healing, increased immunity, decrease of current pain, and more fun in your life, more flow and ease and serendipities. If you have chronic pain or disease, your body has brought you to this point where you probably notice the more you focus on it and try to fix it, the worse things are becoming, the more it's spreading.
The answer is tuning into your body, learning about yourself, learning not only what the real root causes of your pain, but more importantly, what to do now. If you think that possibly life could be easier, that you don't need to work hard all of the time and try to give from an empty cup, please click the link in the show notes and get on my email interest list for six months, working with me in a small group on your personal alignment. Thank you so much for listening.
I hope you learned a little bit about your brain today that helps you in your life like it helped me. Please be sure and subscribe and leave a review. And of course, be sure and share this podcast with someone you know that wants an unstoppable body and mind.
Thursday Feb 10, 2022
Thursday Feb 10, 2022
In this episode, I interview Dan Buglio from “Pain Free You”. He has been doing daily YouTube videos about becoming pain free for almost 3 years, and has over a million views!
He explains chronic pain as “Perceived Danger" pain. The danger isn't real, but the brain PERCEIVES it is, and amplifies or produces pain. Chronic pain is not a sign or true danger, but an issue of misinformation/ bad data.
"If danger is what is feeding this, safety is the solution." We talk all about what this means and how to do it!
Here are some highlights from our discussion:
8:49- Your Brain’s primary job is safety and survival
11:33- What if you don’t yet 100% believe?
13:05- How to teach your brain you are really OK
16:08- Symptom imperatives like anxiety, insomnia
20:26- Principles to reduce pain- Knowledge, Acceptance, Teach Brain it’s Safe
27:22- Don’t believe your thoughts
32:19- Do you push through the pain?
41:38- Insomnia
43:49 Coughing up the phlegm analogy
45:50 Survival states and calming
You can check Dan out on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/c/PainFreeYou
Pain Free You Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PainFreeYouNow/
Thank you Dan!
For fresh content on healing chronic pain or disease, follow Betsy
on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bodyandmindlifecoach/
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvXZSYYGL2cfJl-oEOzqspA
Website https://bodyandmindlifecoach.com
*Free Nervous System Modules- 4 free videos explaining the nervous system, how it affects your health, and how to regulate it https://view.flodesk.com/pages/620ffa96e0eda1a0d870b5a6
*Curable App- 6 Weeks Free with this code http://www.curable.com/betsyjensen
If you like this podcast, please give it a five star rating and review on Itunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unstoppable-body-and-minds-podcast/id1493360543
Tuesday Feb 01, 2022
Tuesday Feb 01, 2022
I am so excited to bring you more information about something that has changed my understanding of somatic work completely- and that is understanding the nervous system.
The nervous system is our body's threat detector, and will put us into survival states which physically effect all systems of the body.
These survival states are helpful if we are being chased by a tiger. But living in fight/flight/freeze or fawn will take it's toll on our body.
We can learn to identify these states by noticing our body's reactions.
Increased heart rate, breathing, tension in the jaw and arms? You are probably in "fight".
Scattered thinking, anxiety, can't sit still, trying to fix, always doing? You are probably in "flight".
Lethargic, confused, dissocaited, space, overwhelmed? You are probably in "freeze".
People pleasing, no boundaries, over apologizing, worried about what others think? You are probably in "fawn".
Getting into a survival state is normal, it is part of growth. But we just want to be able to return to the PARASYMPATHETIC/CALM state as much as possible to give our bodies a chance to rest and repair.
This "VENTRAL" state is also called our window of tolerance. It's where we are calm, collected, connected and creative.
Each time we are triggered into a survival state and return to the window of tolerance, we resolve a little piece of trauma from our past.
Getting into this window of tolerance is our place of alignment- where we can tune into our inner voice and be our best selves.
For fresh content on healing chronic pain or disease, follow Betsy
on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bodyandmindlifecoach/
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvXZSYYGL2cfJl-oEOzqspA
Website https://bodyandmindlifecoach.com
*Free Nervous System Modules- 4 free videos explaining the nervous system, how it affects your health, and how to regulate it https://view.flodesk.com/pages/620ffa96e0eda1a0d870b5a6
*Curable App- 6 Weeks Free with this code http://www.curable.com/betsyjensen
If you like this podcast, please give it a five star rating and review on Itunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unstoppable-body-and-minds-podcast/id1493360543
Monday Jan 03, 2022
Monday Jan 03, 2022
In this Episode, I interview a pain coach and fellow Physical Therapist, Dr Andrea Moore.
We talk about her story with chronic pain and perfectionism, and why it doesn’t work to try and fight the pain.
We often can’t wait to get out of pain. But the frustration and urgency to change are actually what can keep us stuck.
We retrain the brain through acceptance, and allowing what is. As we develop our ability to sit with discomfort, our brain becomes less reactive to the sensations in our body.
For fresh content on healing chronic pain or disease, follow Betsy
on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bodyandmindlifecoach/
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvXZSYYGL2cfJl-oEOzqspA
Website https://bodyandmindlifecoach.com
*Free Nervous System Modules- 4 free videos explaining the nervous system, how it affects your health, and how to regulate it https://view.flodesk.com/pages/620ffa96e0eda1a0d870b5a6
*Curable App- 6 Weeks Free with this code http://www.curable.com/betsyjensen
If you like this podcast, please give it a five star rating and review on Itunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unstoppable-body-and-minds-podcast/id1493360543
Monday Dec 13, 2021
Monday Dec 13, 2021
Today I interview Katrina Ubell- a well known Life Coach, and host of the podcast “Weight Loss For Busy Physicians”.
We recap her healing journey and how understanding the connection with her body and mind helped her cure her chronic pain and get off her medications.
Katrina had a lifelong history of aches and pains, starting with patellafemoral pain in 6th grade. She had sciatica and was wearing an SI joint brace. She had many different pains throughout her body, and was even diagnosed with Fibromyalgia.
Not only did she get out of chronic pain, she was able to get off her medicine for acid reflux, allergies, ocular rosacea and dry eyes.
One thing I really admired about Katrina’s approach, was her curious and playful attitude about her current body beliefs, and what might be possible to change.
Through her work in weight loss coaching, she had developed a relationship with her body based in beliefs, rather than limits.
Through this work in Body and Mind Lifecoaching, she learned even more about how to be in collaboration with her body.
As she learned to trust her body, feel repressed emotions, calm her nervous system, and rewire her brain, she no longer had chronic pain or the need to take her medications.
If you would like to hear more about Katrina Ubell and my work with her, check out my interview on her podcast- Weight Loss for Busy Physicians:
For fresh content on healing chronic pain or disease, follow Betsy
on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bodyandmindlifecoach/
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvXZSYYGL2cfJl-oEOzqspA
Website https://bodyandmindlifecoach.com
*Free Nervous System Modules- 4 free videos explaining the nervous system, how it affects your health, and how to regulate it https://view.flodesk.com/pages/620ffa96e0eda1a0d870b5a6
*Curable App- 6 Weeks Free with this code http://www.curable.com/betsyjensen
If you like this podcast, please give it a five star rating and review on Itunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unstoppable-body-and-minds-podcast/id1493360543
Monday Nov 22, 2021
Monday Nov 22, 2021
Training wheels is a concept I came up with, to explain how you may need a little extra support during times of high stress or pain.
And that's ok!
When you are in extreme conditions, there are things you may do to calm your nervous system, that are different than what you might do when you are in a neutral state.
AND if you do some of these comforting things, it ends up way worse if you then beat yourself up, or feel bad you aren't doing all of the "right" things for healing.
Maybe you worked extra and had a stressful week. You might not have meditated or journaled. Or you may have a go-to strategy for feeling better like having a drink or binging on Netflix.
Maybe you have a medication you take when the pain is really bad.
Even if you're doing this work and know strategies to decrease pain, there are times that you aren't in a mental state to do thought work or process emotions.
If you then beat yourself up for "not doing things right", you add so much more pain to an already difficult situation!
I view these comforting activities you choose in a time of high stress or pain, as a child who needs extra support with training wheels while learning to ride a bike.
It's neutral, and it doesn't predict the future of that kid being able to ride without training wheels some day.
Even if the comforting behavior is one you eventually want to change, the best way to change the habit is to accept yourself where you are. (Radical Self Acceptance)
Listen more for this counter-intuitive, but compassionate approach.
For fresh content on healing chronic pain or disease, follow Betsy
on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bodyandmindlifecoach/
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvXZSYYGL2cfJl-oEOzqspA
Website https://bodyandmindlifecoach.com
*Free Nervous System Modules- 4 free videos explaining the nervous system, how it affects your health, and how to regulate it https://view.flodesk.com/pages/620ffa96e0eda1a0d870b5a6
*Curable App- 6 Weeks Free with this code http://www.curable.com/betsyjensen
If you like this podcast, please give it a five star rating and review on Itunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unstoppable-body-and-minds-podcast/id1493360543
Wednesday Nov 10, 2021
Wednesday Nov 10, 2021
This episode was inspired by a question on my Instagram live, and is a very common question with persistent symptoms or when new conditions arise.
When do you seek medical attention?
This podcast is not intended to replace medical advice, and I do believe that there is an important place for the medical system alongside this work.
I get regular check ups and blood work just as I would get an oil change in my car or an update for my phone.
The clients who I work with have also been through the medical system and have tried the suggested treatments for years or sometimes decades. Many of them are Physicians themselves.
But just as there are signs to rule in or out medical conditions, there are clues in the pain's behavior to RULE IN Neural Circuit (NC, or mindbody) issues.
The FIT Criteria (Dr Schubiner) can be used to determine if your pain is behaving like NC (Neural Circuit) pain.
Things like the pain changing locations, hurting after but not during exercise, and increase in pain when talking about the area are signs that your brain is misinterpreting safe signals as dangerous- and activating the same neural circuits of real pain that you feel in your body.
To take a quiz based on the FIT criteria, and determine if you have NC pain- click the link below!
The other thing to consider is looking at the whole person and history of pain and illness. The more of these conditions you've had, the more likely that the pain you are feeling now is also NC pain.
Dr Schubiner says these medical conditions are "Likely NC:"
IBS, Functional dyspepsia, Fibromyalgia, MPS, scoliosis, weak core, tight hamstrings, SI joint dysfunction, piriformis syndrome, leg length discrepancy, TMJ, Chronic fatigue syndrome, tension and migraine headaches, facial pain, small fiber neuropathy, PHN, interstitial cystitis, pelvic floor dysfunction, pudendial neuralgia, vulvodynia, anxiety, depression, PTSD
The next list from Dr Schubiner is "Diseases that are diagnosed as not NC, but are often NC":
Chronic Fatigue, SEID, post-COVID syndrome, Lyme disease, CMV, EBV, Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, costo-chondritis, chronic constipation, GERD, SIBO, POTS, Atypical chest pain
Lastly, Dr Schubiner considers these "Not NC":
cancer, HIV, infections like Lyme, Parkinson's, dementia, ALS, Hearing loss, Meniere's disease, Severely ruptured disc or severe arthritis limiting movement
I suggest working along with a Medical team, but do notice with yourself if you are creating a lot of anxiety worrying about symptoms and catastrophizing.
Research shows high catastrophizers are more likely for acute pain to turn chronic, to get new acute pain, and to have a more difficult recovery after surgery.
So check out my episode on the Pain-Fear-Pain cycle if you are feeling some medical anxiety and want to understand more about how your thoughts can amplify pain.
For fresh content on healing chronic pain or disease, follow Betsy
on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bodyandmindlifecoach/
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvXZSYYGL2cfJl-oEOzqspA
Website https://bodyandmindlifecoach.com
*Free Nervous System Modules- 4 free videos explaining the nervous system, how it affects your health, and how to regulate it https://view.flodesk.com/pages/620ffa96e0eda1a0d870b5a6
*Curable App- 6 Weeks Free with this code http://www.curable.com/betsyjensen
If you like this podcast, please give it a five star rating and review on Itunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unstoppable-body-and-minds-podcast/id1493360543
Wednesday Nov 03, 2021
Wednesday Nov 03, 2021
Today I have a special episode that you will want to listen to if you struggle with sleep!
If you have chronic pain, you may also struggle with insomnia, anxiety, or insomnia anxiety- and this is what Raina helps with. Sleep hygiene is only part of the solution, and may not really help if you are having anxious thoughts all day. Her approach combines thought work with intuitive work- helping you find the techniques that work best for you.
This episode is for you if you are struggling to get to or stay asleep, or feeling anxious around not getting enough sleep.
As I talk with Raina, listen to the ways that processing insomnia anxiety and similar to what I teach with processing chronic pain!
About Raina: Raina struggled with insomnia anxiety for 5 years, sleeping on average between 2-3 hours per night. In addition to treating the medical aspects (guided by my doctor), she decided to tackle the insomnia anxiety that had been spinning out of control head-on. Since 2020, she's been sleeping 6-7 hours a night and can calm the insomnia anxiety when she feels it coming back on. For free lessons and worksheets, join her Facebook Group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/insomniaanxiety
For fresh content on healing chronic pain or disease, follow Betsy
on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bodyandmindlifecoach/
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvXZSYYGL2cfJl-oEOzqspA
Website https://bodyandmindlifecoach.com
*Free Nervous System Modules- 4 free videos explaining the nervous system, how it affects your health, and how to regulate it https://view.flodesk.com/pages/620ffa96e0eda1a0d870b5a6
*Curable App- 6 Weeks Free with this code http://www.curable.com/betsyjensen
If you like this podcast, please give it a five star rating and review on Itunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unstoppable-body-and-minds-podcast/id1493360543
Monday Oct 18, 2021
Monday Oct 18, 2021
How are parenting and rewiring your brain for less pain similar? You may be surprised.
Crystal Haitsma teaches Radical Connection Parenting, in which connection and relationship are valued over behavior modification. Instead of using rewards and punishment to get kids to do what you want, you work on the relationship instead, so they naturally do what you want them to.
She talks a lot about emotional regulation in parenting- for both parent and child. As we learn to process our own thoughts and emotions, we can model this and hold space for our children to do the same. As we develop that secure attachment with them, they are more likely to obey us and listen to us and model our behavior.
This episode is not just for parents. Crystal teaches that as you heal yourself from the inside out, then you heal your parent-child relationship. Which is also the way to heal all relationships in life.
The more compassion you have for yourself, the more compassion you will naturally have for others in your life. So parenting starts with our own inner work.
You can find Crystal on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/the.parenting.coach/ or on “The Freedom Moms Podcast”
For fresh content on healing chronic pain or disease, follow Betsy
on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bodyandmindlifecoach/
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvXZSYYGL2cfJl-oEOzqspA
Website https://bodyandmindlifecoach.com
*Free Nervous System Modules- 4 free videos explaining the nervous system, how it affects your health, and how to regulate it https://view.flodesk.com/pages/620ffa96e0eda1a0d870b5a6
*Curable App- 6 Weeks Free with this code http://www.curable.com/betsyjensen
If you like this podcast, please give it a five star rating and review on Itunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unstoppable-body-and-minds-podcast/id1493360543
Monday Sep 27, 2021
Monday Sep 27, 2021
When someone has chronic pain (more than 3-6 mo, resistant to medical treatment), then the brain processes pain differently. Neural pathways of pain become like habits, and pain can remain even after normal healing time has passed.
But the brain is neuroplastic, and we can train it to produce less pain.
Graded exposure is one technique used in reprocessing pain and rewiring the brain.
Graded exposure is a way to slowly introduce movements back, that are usually associated with pain.
You can have a corrective experience when you try a movement previously associated with pain, but are able to interpret it differently. When you do this over and over, in progressively higher amounts, you rewire to brain to move with safety and without producing pain.
If you have pain with a certain movement, I would suggest you start your graded exposure in your IMAGINATION.
Once you get good at imagining yourself moving without pain, and paired with a joyful or positive emotion, then you will train your brain it is safe. Not dangerous. No pain signals are required.
Here is a 7 min clip of me using this graded exposure technique with a client:
For fresh content on healing chronic pain or disease, follow Betsy
on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bodyandmindlifecoach/
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvXZSYYGL2cfJl-oEOzqspA
Website https://bodyandmindlifecoach.com
*Free Nervous System Modules- 4 free videos explaining the nervous system, how it affects your health, and how to regulate it https://view.flodesk.com/pages/620ffa96e0eda1a0d870b5a6
*Curable App- 6 Weeks Free with this code http://www.curable.com/betsyjensen
If you like this podcast, please give it a five star rating and review on Itunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unstoppable-body-and-minds-podcast/id1493360543