Episode #25- Healing Back Pain with Matt

in this episode I interview Matt, who had debilitating back pain for 10 years.  He just finished my 6 week coaching program and has some amazing results.  

Not only is he pain free most of the time, he learned mental tools to improve the relationships, and spirituality in his life.  He learned emotions can be felt and processed instead of repressed and felt as pain.

Matt is actively pursuing new goals, now that his mind is free of the mental preoccupation with and fear of pain.  He understands the importance on investing in his mental capacities, just like we know a healthy diet and exercise is good for the body.  He sets aside time daily for mental work and focus.

Matt feels like he has been on "maintenance mode" for the last 10 years, and is now able to live hope for a future he is in charge of.  Amazing results!

 

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Transcript:

This is Betsy Jensen and you are listening to Unstoppable Body and Mind—Episode 25–Healing Back Pain with Matt.

 

In this podcast we learn to upgrade our brain and understand the power of our thoughts to heal and to create the results we want in our life. Become the person in control of your healing and make peace with your life. Become unstoppable, body and mind.

 

Hey, Matt, good to have you here. 

 

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

 

Oh, my pleasure. Matt just finished coaching with me for six weeks. And we're going to talk about some of the things that he learned and how it went. Matt, could you start by just talking a little bit about your history of back pain?

 

Yeah, so I've had debilitating back pain for a little over ten years now. And I've tried everything. I've been open to trying everything: every physician, holistic medicine, full therapy, acupuncture stem cells, I mean, the list goes on and on. So I really have been on a long journey of trying to deal with my issues.

 

Yeah. And what was your activity level? 

 

I couldn't do much at all, which was very frustrating. I was very active before, very athletic, played some sports in college—a big way I dealt with stress. When my back started acting up, I couldn't do really any physical activity and so it was very, very difficult for me from an emotional standpoint as well.

 

Yeah, I remember you saying you couldn't lift more than about twenty pounds.

 

No, yeah. And I just had to be really careful. Anything I lifted had to be pretty light and I couldn't bend over day to day, things were difficult. I mean, I even went through periods where like, I couldn't put my socks on. I had to have my wife help me put my socks on. So yeah, it was pretty bad.

 

Yeah. And I think there was a lot of fear involved too, right? Like there was fear about exercise or doing too much.

 

Yeah, for sure. I got to the point where I felt like I could manage things, like keep things from getting worse. And in my mind, there were certain things that would make it worse. And so yeah, I would say I had a huge fear of doing anything outside of the safe activities. I would stay away from them as much as I could. And any time I came close to doing something that I thought would mess my back up, I would just be very anxious and just nervous and yeah, huge fear component for sure.

 

So it was really affecting your life in a lot of ways. 

 

Yeah, definitely. And then your wife is a coach, and she reached out to me, and you had just gotten John Sarno’s book right before we started coaching,

 

My wife let me know about you. I had never really entertained the idea that part of my pain could be associated with the way I'm thinking about it and essentially stem from my mind, my subconscious, my emotions. Before I went on our first call, I picked up John Sarno's book, Healing Back Pain and read it. I read it in like an hour. I read it cover to cover. It was really exciting. 

 

That's awesome. 

 

Yeah, I remember my first feeling when I was reading the book was it was never on my radar. I don't know, even if it had been on my radar, if I would have been open to it. But I remember feeling for the first time when I was reading that book for like the first time in ten years, like hope, I guess a little hopeful that I wasn't stuck with these back issues for the rest of my life that hey, maybe there was a light at the end of the tunnel for me. It was really exciting actually.

 

That's awesome. And I know he talks specifically about personality traits, like perfectionism and people pleasing being highly correlated with back pain or chronic pain in general. And how do you think that resonated with you?

 

I felt both of those described me well, as we spoke about it. I really felt like a lot of my emotional anxiety had to do with my desire to people please. One of the other things he talked about was anger and kind of subdued anger. And I thought I had no issues but even diving into that to realize that, hey, I was repressing things and not dealing with things and thinking I didn't have issues, but really did. I just wasn't dealing with them.

 

So how do you feel like you started to unrepress those emotions to get them out?

 

So there are a few things. And honestly, this is where you were so helpful, right? So I read the book and really, John Sarno was like, okay, you know, a lot of this chronic pain is in your mind. So just go out and exercise. You're fine, basically. Right? And I'm thinking okay, for me, I couldn't just flip that switch. And so, you know, you gave me a lot of tools to help get me there. One of the first things was the journaling or the mind dumping, right, so just kind of writing down emotions. And it was helpful for me to just focus on a certain emotion and just kind of write down everything I felt and kind of let myself almost be a child again in that sense, and just feel the raw emotions and write down what I was thinking no matter how bad I thought it was. And it was really, honestly, it was a really great emotional experience to do that. And to feel those things, let myself feel them.

 

It's interesting, because I think we don't talk about a lot of emotions in our society, and especially for men, that's kind of frowned upon almost to be emotional or to acknowledge that you have emotions, right? 

 

Yeah, for sure. I think there's that stigma, right? The strong man doesn't cry, or, you know, in my case, I should be this nice, calm person. So I don't get angry. That's kind of who I built myself up to be. I think a lot of people when they do think about letting some of those emotions out, they're kind of worried that rage is going to just take over then or that they are going to become this angry person if they start validating that they have anger. 

 

Did you experience any of that?

 

I experienced that feeling initially. Right when I first started, I had the thought, Well wait, I can't write this down because that makes it real, right? And then that makes me a bad person, but I just kind of pushed through it, like per your advice, and I just went for it. And if anything, it all kind of spilled out. The first session, I went for, like 30-45 minutes. I had just pages of these raw, raw emotions and then you had me do a little meditation exercise afterwards and it felt so peaceful and calming. And I felt like I was just kind of getting the gunk out of me and I felt like cleansed, if anything. It didn't hang around and have the opposite effect.

 

I think a lot of people, like I said, are just kind of worried about once I open those floodgates, then what's going to happen, you know, I've been containing these things for so long and it feels more safe to not acknowledge the emotion. Yeah, it's good that you had that experience. And I think at some point, you can kind of just allow the emotions and let them flow through you and not bottle them up.

 

Right. Another thing that was really helpful was realizing that our emotions aren’t scary, right? I mean, they're just these feelings in our body and when we're able to recognize them and pay attention to them, we realize, okay, what does that emotion mean? I mean, it's nothing crazy. Maybe it's a slight tightness in my chest. But honestly, if I pay attention to it, it goes away pretty quickly, and it causes no harm or anything. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, it's a pretty minor thing.

 

Do you feel like you've noticed how emotions do correlate with sensations or maybe even pain in your body?

 

Yeah, for sure. And then another thing that has been really helpful for me during our sessions is being able to focus on the pain. You took me through exercises where I kind of just felt the pain almost from a neutral position where I wasn't scared of it.  I wasn't anxious. I just almost looked at it as a third party and just kind of observed it. That has been super helpful from the pain standpoint. But also from an emotional standpoint, I found myself doing the same thing. Whenever I had emotions pop up, and I'm like, “Okay, let's just observe what this feels like in my body.” And yeah, I felt like I haven't had the tools to better deal with the things that have popped up on a day to day basis. Even taking away all the pain stuff, just from an emotional standpoint. Those two, yeah.

 

Yeah, the pain is sometimes viewed as a gateway to kind of this bigger expanse of knowledge that you're able to access and really, how do you feel like it's affected your life to have this new view of emotions and pain? 

 

Yeah, huge. It's been like a huge, huge thing. And again, something I don't think I would have been open to before. I think it's not talked about as much in our society where we're very conscious about our physical health, right. And you know, we diet, and we exercise and we do all these things, but we're not super proactive about our mental health unless something's really wrong, right? And then we maybe go see a counselor or a therapist or take some medication, but I realize I need to be as proactive with my mental health as I am with my physical health. And it's been super eye opening and super helpful that way.

 

Yeah. Because these tools, I mean, you can apply them to pain and healing. But you can also apply these same tools to, you know, getting results that you want in your life achieving goals. Just that mindfulness is so important, right?

 

Yeah, I agree 100%. Yeah, you can apply it all over the spectrum.

 

One of the things I really was impressed with with you is that you did a lot of studying on your own when I would suggest maybe reading something or listening to a podcast, you would do that and you tried the Curable App. Were there some things that you found helpful outside of the coaching as well?

 

Yeah, I think one of the great things about going again through it with you is you had a lot of tools for me. So yeah, the Curable App was really helpful, very well put together. There's a lot in there and so much to choose from, but they obviously are experts in their field and really sound like they have a passion for helping people with chronic disease and pain and so that was really helpful. You recommended a tapping app that was helpful as well for some meditation practices. So yeah, I felt like you had really great tools, but it was very helpful to be able to walk through using the tools with you and not just on my own.

 

Ah, great. Thank you. I think the one on one sessions really add a lot too. Of course there are a lot of resources that are available. To do things on your own, but having the guidance just as that little extra addition to really help get things going quickly and see some results faster. I was thinking about one of the times that we started working on having you imagine yourself doing activities. Do you remember that? People might find it interesting to hear how that went for you. When you were sitting in a safe place. You weren't moving your back at all, but you were imagining yourself doing things. What happened for you?

 

I think you asked me to imagine jogging and I couldn't bring myself even to imagine jogging, like I couldn't picture myself doing it—my mind almost felt like I had a block there. And yeah, just with me, I almost had the sensation that my mind was trying to protect me like okay, that's so harmful that you don't even want to think about it. And it was a super enlightening process for me to realize, hey, my mind is this powerful, but at the same time, it's holding on to some things that aren't true. And I was able to kind of, you know, work through them again, with help. And it wasn't like right away. It wasn't like flipping a switch. We had to do some exercises to get to the point where I could even imagine myself doing some smaller things. But yeah, in the end, I was able to get past and even imagine doing that. 

 

I think you said your back muscles were tightening up just sitting there and imagining that, right?

 

Yeah, I did feel that. When we were talking about it I remembered. Yeah. So I got some of that same tightness and pressure that I would get from trying to do an activity that I knew I “shouldn't be doing.” 

 

It's fascinating. It just goes to show that the brain can produce pain signals that you feel in your body. Even though there isn't a physical stimulus causing that to happen just purely by imagination, you are creating pain in your back.

 

Right? And then conversely, I mean, when you had me observe the pain and they do the same thing on the Curable App, as you know, if you're able to kind of be totally neutral and observe your pain, it just almost like melted away and not every time, but a lot of times, you know, and it would just kind of go away and it was really eye opening for me and made me realize, hey, this pain isn't 100%. You know, this pain isn't structural. I don't have some structural damage going on to my back. This has been generated by my mind.

 

I think that was a fascinating experience to probably realize that connection is so strong, because I think a lot of times we assume pain means something's gone wrong with the body that we need to fix physically.

 

Yeah, I know for sure that was a big, big eye opener for me.

 

So how is your activity level? Now? It's been a couple of weeks since we talked actually. So maybe there's some new things you've been trying?

 

I'm actually doing well. I'm doing things I haven't done in years and years. I'm back to, you know, swimming, which I hadn't been able to swim for a long time. And that was one of the things I did enjoy as a form of exercise. I'm back to doing some kind of yoga/pilates type things. That again, I haven't done because I didn't think I could do it. I was just too scared of what I would do. Yeah, been more active in general, with the family, hiking, things like that. So a lot of things that I haven't been able to do in a long, long time. I've been able to do very quickly, you know, considering this has been going on so long, and it's just been, you know, less than a couple months, right? 

 

Yeah. That is amazing. I think you told me about like on a Saturday where you were helping some people move and you are lifting heavy things. 

 

And we're actually building a shed for someone's Eagle Scout project. And I remember in the past and even then I didn't like to go to these things because I wanted to help. But also, I felt embarrassed that I couldn't do things, right. Like, if someone's like, “Hey, can you grab this for me?” And I'd be super embarrassed. You know, I'm a young, from all outward appearances, healthy guy. And I can't lift this up for you, right. And so, you know, there was maybe an element of pride there. But I would often avoid like things like helping people move and helping people with outdoor projects. But we went and again, I was a little nervous. And one of the first things someone said, “Hey, can you grab this for me?” And I'm thinking, ah, that looks really heavy. And I was nervous. But anyway, I ended up spending like six hours there and did stuff I hadn't done in a long time. And I remember leaving, and I was super sore all over the place, but not my back. My back wasn't sore. I had all kinds of sore muscles that I hadn't used in years and years, like a good sore, right, like I worked out. So yeah, it was it was great.

 

How would you describe your pain level now?

 

Honestly, I don't, you know, it's not completely gone. But I feel like when it does come, I'm able to, again, right away I go back to our exercise and I just try to observe it. And most of the time I can, you know, get it to relax and it feels okay. And so I mean, most of the time I'm running pain free.

 

That's amazing. Yeah. And what I teach a lot is to have people when they do have a sense of pain, to look at it as you know, kind of a time to check in what could be going on emotionally or mentally, of course, physically too, but most of the time, I think, you know, instead of thinking what's the physical cause of this pain, we can start to think the other ways too.

 

Yeah, no, and that's actually one of the things I've changed just in my daily life. I didn't really spend a whole lot of time on my personal well being and improvement and so I've set aside some time and I've made a goal to kind of every day I have a little bit of time where I'm kind of focused. On the mental and the spiritual aspect of things, and that's been really helpful. And so I'm trying to be really proactive there and not just try to respond to like, Oh, hey, my back's flared up what could be going on? I think that's been helpful for me staying on top of it that way.

 

It sounds like you really have been able to expand in different areas of your life as well. Now that you're not in fear of the pain and focusing on pain. It's really opened up a lot for you.

 

Yeah, I think just emotionally I mean, I'm feeling a lot more peace, but too I'm just hopeful for, I guess, more possibilities in the future. I always thought, okay, I'll work as long as I can. And eventually, maybe I'll retire early because my back won't be able to take it and then you know, after that, I guess I'll just kind of maintain but you know, now I almost got a whole different hope and viewpoint that hey, I mean, all these possibilities are open for me. So, for me, that's super exciting.

 

That is exciting. Do you have any new goals now?

 

Yeah. I mean, I've set some different business goals and some goals that I'm working on with my wife. I've got exercise goals. Yeah, I feel like I have all these huge goals that I set, maybe I had before. And then were on the back burner, because I'm like, I was just almost in maintenance mode for the last ten years. I'm like, Okay, well, I'll just get through it kind of a thing. And I'm not at that point anymore.

 

Well, and another interesting thing to point out is that this has been a year that's been particularly hard for a lot of people. There's a lot of things going on with Corona and with, you know, riots and with just the state of the world. It's been a hard year for a lot of people.

 

Yeah, that is interesting, because honestly, for me, I'm going to look back at 2020 as a year where I've made so much progress, and that's not to take away I know there's a lot of things going on around us and people are hurting physically and emotionally, you know, but at the same time, what's the quote, I'm a firm believer that, you know, our circumstances don't dictate our emotions and outcomes. Sometimes we think they do and sometimes we let them but they don't need to. Right? And so for me, it's been a great time to progress emotionally, spiritually. And honestly, I was out of work for a few months and having that downtime was super helpful to kind of take a break and just reset things a little bit for me, something I would not have done probably, otherwise on my own.

 

Yeah, that's very cool. Do you have any advice for people who are struggling with back pain or chronic pain?

 

Yeah, it's hard for me. I had to go through all the steps, I think to get to the point where I was open to something like this. And that was just my mind, right? I guess my background going to school and you know, I wasn't going to believe it unless it was scientifically proven. And there's very little science on this, although there's a lot more now. I mean, now that I've been researching and reading, there's a lot of science on it just not as talked about, right? I mean, you go to the physician and “Okay, this is wrong here, here's your pill. And this is going to mask your pain.” Right? So I guess I would hope that people would give themselves permission to be open to this, right? I didn't give myself permission to be open until I had exhausted everything and then almost felt at rock bottom. And sometimes I guess we need to do that. But how nice would it have been for me years ago to give myself permission to explore some other avenues of what could be wrong? So there's no harm in exploring this avenue and trying, right? I mean, we talked at one point and I told you I mean, I spent tens of thousands of dollars easy in the last ten years just with different avenues and nothing really improved it and so for me, this is just a no brainer.

 

I think a lot of people are starting to see the value of coaching just for mental acuity and living with purpose, but especially, you know how it ties into the pain that might be, you know, devastating your life right now or even chronic disease, the connection is just not talked about as much. But definitely I think it's important and coaching I think can be super helpful for just mental hygiene is what I call it where it's like, just like you were saying, we want to be physically fit. We want to eat healthy foods, we know that exercise is helpful for our bodies. And we're just I think, right at the cusp of starting to realize that the same is true for our mental capacities. You know, that we can clean up our thinking and that we can really live our very best lives once we are working on our mental hygiene and mindfulness as well.

 

Yeah, I would a hundred percent agree and I would say as much pain as I was in and as great as I feel now. If you took that whole aspect away, and I didn't feel any physical improvement, just the tools to deal with some emotions and the mental tools are worth it, for sure, just that alone, but add on everything else, and it's, it's a no brainer for me.

 

Fantastic. All right. Well, thank you so much for your time today.

 

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

 

What a great interview with Matt, I think that is going to help and inspire a lot of people on their healing journeys. I do believe that coaching provides one on one feedback and support that can really help with this process. So if you're curious about coaching, or if you've been working on things on your own and you feel like you're just not getting the results that you want, then please email me at info@bodyandmindlifecoach.com and check out my website, bodyandmindlifecoach.com.

 

Thank you so much for listening. I hope you learned a little bit about your brain today that helps you in your life like it helped me. Please be sure and subscribe and leave a review. And, of course, be sure and share this podcast with someone you know who wants an unstoppable body and mind.